Did Jesus’s Life Fulfill Over 300 Prophesies?

I’ve recently had a gentleman (altonwoods) commenting on my blog who is trying to get me to see the truth, which, to him, is Christianity. To try to convince me that Christianity is true, he put forth this argument:

Did you know that Jesus’ life fulfilled over 300 individual prophesy’s[sic]? and that the odds on that are mathematically impossible?

(conservatively estimated to be 10 to the 156th power)

It was something I hadn’t heard before, and even though it sounded to me like someone was high when they came up with those numbers, I asked for more information. He told me that he got the information from a Peter Stoner *snicker* who wrote the book Science Speaks.

In the comments on my post about the atheist being expelled from the Creation Museum, altonwoods posted this list of 8 prophesies that have been fulfilled by Jesus (numbers added by me):

1. Micah 5:2 That He would be born in Bethlehem 1:100,000

2. Zechariah 9:9 That He would ride into Jerusalem on a donkey (the foal of a colt) presenting Himself as a king. 1:100

3. Zechariah 11:12 That He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver 1:1000

4. Zechariah 11:13 That the 30 pieces of silver would end up in the hands of the potter. 1:100,000 (who owned the field that was bought with the blood money Judas Escariot threw on the floor)

5. Zechariah 13:6 That He would be wounded in His hands in the house of His friends 1:1000 (Which refers to His experience with Thomas and his doubts about Jesus’ resurrection)

6. Isaiah 53:7 That He would be led to the slaughter like a lamb and would make no defense for Himself even though He was innocent 1:1000 (this is definitely a conservative estimate, you’re facing crucifixion here!)

7. Isaiah 53:9 That He would die with the wicked, and be buried with the rich. 1:1000 (excluding attorneys of course) We know He died a criminal’s death and that He was buried in a tomb provided by Joseph of Aramathia…Was Joseph just that interested in seeing an 800 yr old prophesy fulfilled that he donated a brand new tomb?

8. Psalm 22:16 16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; Whats most interesting is that this prophesy concerning the crucifixion is given 700 years before the practice of crucifixion was even invented. (Jewish capital punishment was stoning).

I’m not a Bible scholar, so my knowledge of the history of the area and the characters in the stories are limited to what I learned in Bible study, and that was a few years ago. With that said, I still want to talk about these prophesies.

The thing is, that the people writing the New Testament had access to, and were probably well versed in the stories of the Old Testament. So wouldn’t somebody who believes that Jesus is the son of God be motivated to work the details of the prophesies into the Gospels? Furthermore, Jesus was a Jew, so of course he knew the prophesies…

If you look at #2 above, which says that “He”, aka Jesus, would ride in on a donkey. That’s a pretty specific statement, so it does seem to be an amazing coincidence that Jesus did return to Jerusalem on a donkey. But if you read Matthew 21:4, it says “All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet…” It says it right there in the Bible that Jesus was actively taking steps to make sure that he fit the prophesies. Go ahead, look it up yourself.

The numbers given by Stoner in this book are questionable to me too…they seem to have been pulled out of his ass…seriously they’re all products of 10?

Number 8 is the only prophesy of the ones altonwoods gave me that appears to actually be predicting something that was beyond the scope of the knowledge at the time that it was written. That’s assuming that it’s true that crucifixion wasn’t invented until 700 years later, which I’m too lazy to look into. But reading Psalm 22, I don’t see anything about crucifixion.

The King James version does say that the person’s hands and feet are pierced, but it doesn’t say that that’s because they’ve been nailed to a cross. To me, it’s simply talking about being attacked by dogs…if you’re fighting off dogs you’d be using your hands and feet, and dogs can pierce skin with their teeth. No mysteries there.

altonwoods said about Stoner’s work: “If science is whats credible to you, check this out!” Using the Bible as evidence for the Bible’s truthfulness is not scientific. If you want to convince me that Christianity is true then you’ll have to do so by other means that quoting the Bible, because it’s nothing more than a collection of stories.


48 Responses to “Did Jesus’s Life Fulfill Over 300 Prophesies?”

  1. 1 steve August 16, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    Good post! But it’s best to ‘cease ye from man whose breath is in his nostrils, for wherein is he to accounted of’.
    Regardless of how learned or ignorant one is…it’s all foolishness to God. It’s written to ‘speak not in the ears of a fool, for he will despise he wisdom of thy words’…and ‘go from the presence of a foolish man when though perceivest not in him the words of knowledge’.
    The bottom line is, without faith it’s impossible to please Him.
    I mean, I could say that I don’t believe Russia is real…I’ve never seen it…I’ve never met anyone from there. Bur we know that’s foolishness.
    Anyway, your post caught my eye and I just kinda wanted to comment. Hoping you have a good week!

  2. 2 linzeebinzee August 16, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Your analogy about Russia is ridiculous. There’s an endless amount of evidence that Russia exists. You’re right, it is extremely foolish to think that Russia may not exist. But I’ve never seen any evidence for any gods, so it’s not foolish to suspend belief in any gods until that evidence comes to light.

    Faith, belief without reason, is not a virtue. Without faith I can’t please ‘Him’? Well I’m not going to waste my time trying to please something that doesn’t appear to exist. If there’s a god out there that’s so insecure that he needs me to worship him, then he should show himself to me and prove to me that he’s worthy of my worship.

    I have no idea what this means: ‘cease ye from man whose breath is in his nostrils, for wherein is he to accounted of’

    But in the rest of the post it seems like you’re calling me an ignorant fool? I hope you have a good week too.

  3. 4 steve August 16, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Yes ma’am, the analogy about Russia is ridiculous…it was supposed to be;
    And no, I wasn’t calling you an ignorant fool. You seemed to be well spoken surely, not ignorant. It’s just I’ve heard the same arguments against any sort of god for many years…and I was just hoping for something a bit different.
    Three things you can trust me on though: God is far from insecure and He sincerely needs nothing from you, and he needs to prove nothing to anyone…it would be kinda like proving the existence of Russia…

  4. 5 linzeebinzee August 16, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    Psalm 14:1: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.”


    Like I care what a storybook has to say about me.

  5. 6 linzeebinzee August 16, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    “It’s just I’ve heard the same arguments against any sort of god for many years”

    The only arguments I ever hear for a god is “you have to have faith!”…so convincing…

    Why do you believe that the god of the Bible is the right god?

  6. 7 steve August 16, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    I hope that you won’t ask a question and not appreciate the answer…but if you must know why I believe. Briefly, I’ve had some very personal experiences with Him many years ago, (without seeking Him at all, it just happened) Not just personal, but real, tangilble experiences that beyond any doubt made me to know He is real…not that I understand everything, but there you have it.
    It’s sad that folks simply use the phrase “only have faith”…
    as it’s too shallow and not entirely accurate. Most people confuse ‘faith’ with ‘blind faith’ … of course people have to have something tangible to go on, something to build so called ‘faith’ on…so, without getting too far into what may seem foolish to you, I hope you understand what I meant.

  7. 8 linzeebinzee August 16, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    Would you be willing to go into more detail about these experiences?

    If you’ve had a personal experience with god, why doesn’t he do this for everyone? I was a Christian all my life until about a year ago, yet I never had any personal contact with god.

  8. 9 oldtimeballplayer August 16, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    [Quote} I was a Christian all my life until about a year ago, yet I never had any personal contact with god.[Unquote}

    I don’t mean to be facetious, but to be a ‘Christian’ one must be born into the family of God, (John 3:3,&5-8) but yet you say you never had any personal contact with Him. Not having personal contact with your birth parent either natural or spiritually is an impossibility. You may not remember the birth pangs you experienced during your natural birth as you passed through the birth canal, but it is an absolute certainty that when you pass through the birth canal from the natural to the spiritual a person remembers every vivid detail of that passage regardless of their age. No one that has been saved from death either naturally or spiritually ever forgets the name of the one who saved them, the place where the event occurred, or the date, the hour, and yes they even remember the minute the event took place. If a person says, “They can’t remember the birth pangs of their rite of passage into the family of God, I seriously doubt they were ever born into the family of God.”

  9. 10 Global Villager August 16, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    What are you talking about???? I enjoy reading this blog and I appreciate diverse viewpoints but that is the zaniest/dumbest thing I have ever heard. You aren’t being facetious at all, just crazy.

    I do not even get it, who are you quoting at the end????? Is this a metaphor or do you vividly remember a spiritual birth????

  10. 11 oldtimeballplayer August 17, 2009 at 7:17 am

    Global Villager; The point I am making is just because a person says they are a Christian does not make them a Christian any more than living in a garage makes a person a car. You become a Christian by being birthed into the family of God. This is called the born again experience as explained by Jesus in John 3:3&5-8. It is not just mumbling some words you don’t mean, being baptized in water, or attending church because your parents or friends attend church, or any other nonsense. It is just what the bible says it is; a birth experience. And as I said, it is an impossibility for a person to be born into the family of God and not know it because that process is a life saving experience, in that, you pass from sure death to sure life spiritually, and any person who has been saved from a sure death experience either in the natural or spiritually never forgets the one who saved them, the location of that event, the date, the hour or even the minute that experience took place.

    (My quote) If a person says, “They can’t remember the birth pangs of their rite of passage into the family of God”, I seriously doubt they were ever born into the family of God. (End of quote) In this statement I am quoting the many people I personally have heard make this comment during the 30 years of my Christian walk. And in almost every case, you can’t tell the difference between the way they live and the unbelievers who knows they are a sinner.

  11. 12 linzeebinzee August 17, 2009 at 7:55 am

    Convenient…just brush off my former beliefs by saying I wasn’t a true Christian. So you’re saying that anyone who isn’t a “born again” Christian is not a true Christian? I lived my Christianity. I read my Bible. I prayed every day, every hour. Don’t tell me I wasn’t a true Christian. But I still had no direct contact with god. If I did now I would probably go get my head checked out…maybe you should too.

  12. 13 steve August 17, 2009 at 8:25 am

    Good morning;
    Yes, I’d be willing to go into more detail about my experiences. I don’t know why God doesn’t do the same things for everyone to get them to believe…I mean I sure we all would like to have the experiences of Paul or Damiel or just about any of the ‘prophets’ recorded in the old testament, but we don’t. I’m at work right now, but I’ll relate what happened with me years ago here in a little while if you’d care to hear it. I think your answer in response to the last ‘gentleman’ was right on…the old “you must never have been REALLY saved” b.s….
    Well, I’d better do something around here to actually earn the ‘big bucks’ they’re paying me (rriigghhtt!)…

  13. 14 altonwoods August 17, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Lindsay, I’m just thrilled that you’re even thinking about what I wrote on your blog,that makes it more than worthwhile to me regardless of what you may think of it at this time. Some people say that there’s only two ways to go through life, believing that everything is a miracle or that nothings a miracle…

    Some people continually look for miracles and signs,Perhaps God wonders…

    “how many would it take to convince you?”

    “Would you simply find a way to explain away each one?”

    I bless you in your search for truth, Jeff

  14. 15 Global Villager August 17, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Thank you for clarifying that made much more sense.

    My major issue here is that we keep going back to the Bible as an irrefutable source. As a historian, I can tell you that the Bible is not a legitimate primary source. It is based on oral tradition handed down and skewed over generations (Old Testament) and outright storytelling hundreds of years after the events it describes (New Testament). It is full of metaphors and historical blunders. It is a human creation therefore very fallible and is not divine. I do not think you can seriously refute this central point.

    Secondly, Christianity as you know it today was “decided” on by fallible persons to suit their designs. See the Council of Nicaea and the Arian Controversey for example. Humans made this stuff up and decided what to believe. It is not real, though it exists as reality in the minds of millions of people on Earth. Only for some they envision Napi, the Old Man of the Blackfoot, or Ganesh for the Hindu, or Zeus for the ancient Greeks, or Xenu for Tom Cruise and his brood of lunatics. You see Jesus. Why are you right and why are they wrong? Many people have invented religions over the years (Joseph Smith, Elron Hubbard, Zwingli, etc) how is this different?

    Perhaps people have felt this rebirth and connection with God, but it is likely because they really wanted this to be the case deep down, so they imagined it. The mind is a wonderful and powerful thing. When it malfunctions it can create “realities” as we see with those who have mental illnesses etc. I am not saying that you are ill, only that you have been taken in by a powerful delusion that society has unfortunately institutionalized and force fed the population for so long that many of us can’t break free.

    What the Bible says does not convince me of anything. I would not be pleased if a student cited a passage from Dr. Strangelove in his essay about the Cold War. Likewise, I am unimpressed when you cite the Bible as a credible source. I am impressed by eveidence gained through the scientific method. Many tell me that is not fair because faith and religion cannot be measured in that way but that is exactly my point. Science deals in reality while religion is myth.

    I sincerely hope that one day you will find your way to the ultimate freedom that comes with atheism as I am sure you hope that I will one day find god. I do not intend to belittle you, but religion has had a destructive legacy here on Earth, and I need to call a spade a spade.

  15. 16 steve August 18, 2009 at 7:59 am

    To say the Bible is not a historical book is absurd. ALL history is based on orally handed down testimonies, and ALL is recorded by non other than humans; The Bible is mainly a history of the Jews, similar to the writings of Josephus. Of course there are many questionable stories that exist, but to blatantly dismiss the writtings in the Bible as just fables is nonsense.

    Athesists in general contest these things and rely on their so called education…blathering things they know nothing about so they can say “see how smart I am”…They’re ignorant of the fact that God uses the foolish things of the world to confound those that think they are wise. They’re wise in their own eyes.

  16. 17 oldtimeballplayer August 18, 2009 at 8:01 am

    Linzee said; “Like I care what a storybook has to say about me.”

    Global Villager said; “What the Bible says does not convince me of anything. I would not be pleased if a student cited a passage from Dr. Strangelove in his essay about the Cold War. Likewise, I am unimpressed when you cite the Bible as a credible source.”

    Steve said; “I think your answer in response to the last ‘gentleman’ was right on…the old “you must never have been REALLY saved” b.s….”

    I have cut the different responses to my previous statements down to the core matter of the individual person’s true beliefs which are always reflected through their words: I have a couple of question to ask all of you.
    If the bible is nothing more than a storybook and has no merit as a historical book; can you tell me why some religions and communistic people whose god is their government are so afraid of the bible that they are killing others to prevent them from owning a copy of it?

    Why not Dr. Sues or some other story book?

    Are there any atheist dying because of their lack of a belief in these same countries?

    Can you name me any other people group/s that are dying for transporting their religious books into other countries whose religion is different than their own?

    What is it about the bible that makes everyone feel threatened? Could it be because the words on the pages of it are alive and gives life to those who believe in the saving grace of the God of creation?

    Why is it that only Christian’s are being persecuted, ridiculed, tortured, and killed for their faith and none of the others are if the bible is nothing more than a storybook and a poor historical book?

    My response to Steve; Linzee is a spoiled brat as is easily detected by her responses to those who wrote a comment, and she only wrote this response to Allenwood to see how many so called christians would agree with her and you took the bait and sided in with her. You won’t ever convince her of her need of a Savior with your personal experiences. Feelings and rituals have nothing to do with knowing and serving God. You and Linzee really need to read John chapter 3 again because Jesus clearly layed it out for Nicodemus how one becomes a true Christian and it begins with a born again experience.

  17. 18 steve August 18, 2009 at 8:10 am

    If a Christian is going to respond to someone who is having difficulty which I don’t know of any that don’t…I don’t think it’s wise or accurate to state that person having spiritual problems isn’t or has never been saved. Life and death are in the power of the tongue and we should use that power wisely.
    I don’t know Linzee personally, whether or not she’s a spoiled brat is not for me to say.
    I’ll take the time today to convey my actual experience with God if she would be interested here. The reason I know there is a God…not based on any book, or made up fantasy, and something I simply cannot ever deny.

  18. 19 Global Villager August 18, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Ballplayer said: “If the bible is nothing more than a storybook and has no merit as a historical book; can you tell me why some religions and communistic people whose god is their government are so afraid of the bible that they are killing others to prevent them from owning a copy of it?

    Why not Dr. Sues or some other story book?

    Are there any atheist dying because of their lack of a belief in these same countries?

    Can you name me any other people group/s that are dying for transporting their religious books into other countries whose religion is different than their own?

    What is it about the bible that makes everyone feel threatened? Could it be because the words on the pages of it are alive and gives life to those who believe in the saving grace of the God of creation?

    Why is it that only Christian’s are being persecuted, ridiculed, tortured, and killed for their faith and none of the others are if the bible is nothing more than a storybook and a poor historical book?”

    The answer to your first question is relatively simple. I can’t speak for them but here are three reasons why.

    1) Those in power (let’s say an Islamic Fundamentalist State like Iran for example) do not want Christianity because their iron grip on power is based on some other ludicrous religios doctrine (in this case Islam). Often, those in power claim to be appointed by God or have some special connection with him that legitimizes their power. If people started following another religion that power base is compromised. How would they get men to fight in their wars? How would they keep their women fully clothed and hidden like prisoners in their society? The Roman Emperor Constantine (and many absolute rulers afterwards) realized this. He saw the power of Christianity to subordinate the people to their rule in ways other than the sword. That is why he adopted it as the religion of the Empire in the 300s and only then did it grow (if he hadn’t it likely would have died along with the hundreds of other judeo religious sects the world has seen).

    2) People are scared of it because they should be. It is a doctrine characterized by eternal damnation and hellfires if you do not do what a magic man in the sky has to say. It is incredibly disrespectful to women, has a history of violence, and thrives on making you feel guilty.

    3) Finally, maybe they do not want people coming into their country and crapping all over their own established customs and religion. I laugh when people call atheists “snobs” because we like flash our education. (education and reasoning, the natural enemies of religious belief) What is more arrogrant than claiming you have all of the answers and everyone else is wrong? Do you really think everyone else is wrong Ballplayer? Do you really think that if Christianity really was what you said people would systematically deny it to others? Why?

    On your last point, it is ridiculous to say that only Christians are being persecuted. People are persecuted for their beliefs or their race everyday. Christians have a long history of persecuting people and slaughtering those who disagree (see the Crusades) so don’t even go down that route.

    The difference between you and me is that when you say “could it be that the words are alive and give hope” etc I will concede that point. It could be, I am open minded, if there is ever any real evidence for that I would change my mind. On the other hand, you KNOW you’re right because the Bible says so and you were likely brought up in a Christian household. I will never change your mind.

    Steve, all history is not based on oral tradition. If it is, it is corroborated by evidence or actual events (unlike the Bible). Real historical sources are subject to dissection and critical thinking and interpretations can always change whereas the bible is “set in stone” and has to be taken as the literal truth.

    I’ll leave you both with a quote of my own from the Roman Seneca which I think is quite fitting to the subject:

    “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

  19. 20 linzeebinzee August 18, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    You shouldn’t believe everything you read in books, and historians know that. Do you think King Arthur was real too? Historians won’t take written accounts from one or two sources and suppose that it’s fact. There would need to be a lot more evidence that the events in the Bible happened as they were written before assuming they were true. There’s no evidence of any worldwide floods, there’s no evidence of people wandering through the desert for 40 years, outside of a couple of written sources there’s no evidence of Jesus…it’s not a history book, the stories don’t have outside sources corroborating the events, hell the different books within the Bible aren’t even consistent…It’s mythology.

    Why would god want to confound people? I thought he’s supposed to love us? So he punishes wise people for the wisdom that he created them with? What a jerk!

  20. 21 linzeebinzee August 18, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    People of all religions are persecuted for their beliefs. You think that because Christians are being persecuted that means they’re right? The only thing that proves is that these Christians believe so strongly that they’re willing to be persecuted. It says nothing about the validity of their beliefs.

    Why are you calling me a spoiled brat? How Christian of you. Do you really want to be linking your comments back to your business when you’re going to be insulting me? Anyways you’re right about one thing: nobody will convince me of my need of a saviour with their personal experiences. They can convince me using evidence and reasoning.

  21. 22 steve August 18, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    I’m going to ‘pump the brakes’ here a bit. We have ‘ballplayer’ calling Linzee a spoiled brat; Christians claiming the Bible is historical fact…Global Villager claiming it isn’t and that ‘wise’ people regard religion as false, and Linzee is caught in the middle. In my humble opinion Ballplayer is out of line in calling anyone names; Global might be a historian (I’m not sure as to what sort; as there are many kinds…U.S. history, European, Mid Eastern, Israeli, etc. etc.) but just because I stand in my garage, doesn’t make me a car…
    This isn’t a ‘pissing’ contest. We disagree on some things, but I think any dialogue should be had at least with honesty and respect. I base my beliefs on my experiences and not on history or fables. I’m also of the mind set that if one believes in an after life that the Bible, (as difficult as it is for some to understand) contains the words of eternal life.

  22. 23 Global Villager August 19, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Steve I agree and I respect your personal decisions on your faith etc. I am not trying to convert anyone. I only attempt to call out people who make erroneous statements or attack people with verses such as Psalm 14:1. I cannot tolerate people who push their religion on others and in society (in our schools, Government etc) because I think it is insulting, backward, and dangerous and must be snuffed out always.

    If people kept these thing spersonal I would not get bent out of shape about it!

  23. 24 Pyrrho August 27, 2009 at 10:33 am

    “The point I am making is just because a person says they are a Christian does not make them a Christian any more than living in a garage makes a person a car.”
    Jesus, they haven’t come up with any new Christianese speak yet? It’s a lot of the same ol’ same ol’.
    Anyway, it should be clear that the NT writers (whoever *they* are) attempted to ascribe to Jesus as much as they could and, in turn, claim he fulfilled a prophecy. Remembering the rule for false prophets: that they’d be stoned to death if their prophecies didn’t come to fruition, why wasn’t Isaiah stoned to death for his (as per Christian doctrine) prophecy that Jesus would be born of a virgin? It didn’t happen while he was alive. He should have been stoned to death. Matter of fact, that prophecy uses the word for “young maiden” and not “virgin” but we’ve all heard that argument before. Still, it doesn’t refer to anything but what will be a sign for the king at that time that he won’t be defeated in battle.

    Anyway, yawn, I could go on and on but I’m even boring myself.

  24. 26 AlexAxe September 4, 2009 at 9:20 am

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  25. 27 VENKAT September 4, 2009 at 11:16 am

    To all of you in the thread, I would like to narrate my personal experiences with an external power – who can be named GOD. I was riding a powerful motorcycle at good speed in a very happy mood. In my joyous mood I did not notice a huge pit ahead of me in the road. My bike hit the hole at around 40 MPH and I was thrown off the bike. I was not wearing a helmet. I knew I was going to be hurt and something had gone wrong. Between the moment I was thrown off the bike and the moment I landed on the ground, without any reasoning, I called out the name of GOD (I am a Hindu and I called out “Anjaneya” – the God whom I worship). I did not shout out his name just flashed it through my mind and thoughts. Like a thick layer of wind, I felt a cushioning effect as I fell on the ground. I could not believe that I had no injury or pain. I just got up, walked to my motorcycle that was about 20 metres away, took it to find that its handlebar and footrest were all manged. I firmly believe that I could have been hurt or even dead if not for that external power that saved me. I cannot make you see what happened to me, even I did not see it. I only felt it. Boys and Girls, there is a huge power above all of us governing every little dust in the universe. We call it GOD.

    We need the aid of two mirrors to see our own back. We have limited powers. So our reasoning skills cannot be taken to be powerful enough to question the validity of God. God is not an individual sitting in some distant land. God is a concept. God is knowledge. Suppose you are a doctor, it is because of your education and knowledge. Can you show me the doctor in you? It is you. God is like that. Get me?

  26. 28 misunderstoodranter September 8, 2009 at 3:10 am

    This is statisticallly possible, if we reconstructed you accident – it is likely that the experience you had would happen again. There is no need for a God to be involved. There are similar stories of people who have fallen out of aeroplanes (i.e. when their parachute has failed) and have lived – yet I know if I tried it tomorrow I would most certainly die, but it doesn’t mean that everyone will die – this is just plain mathematics, and not the divine.

  27. 29 misunderstoodranter September 8, 2009 at 9:22 am

    We can’t even believe what was written in the newspapers yesterday – how are you supposed to believe something that is supposed to have been written 2000 years ago.

    Besides – did you know that most of the New Testament was written 40 years after Jesus’ death – yes that’s 4 decades… what do you think people will right about YOU in 4 decades time?

    There was probably hundreds of people claiming to be the son of God in Jesus’ time… there are now! The only difference is that now, we tend not to believe them and lock them up.

  28. 30 misunderstoodranter September 8, 2009 at 9:25 am

    and if you were a Hindu, or a Buddhist, or a Muslim? What about their eternal lives? Which one is right?

  29. 31 misunderstoodranter September 8, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Pagan’s used to worship the Sun and still do – because it is the true giver of all life on Earth, so therefore it is a God. The Christian’s hijacked Pagan rituals for their own agenda which was to force control, by putting the fear of God into people.

    Easter, Christmas, Harvest Day all of these events are Pagan events, related to cycles of the Moon and the Sun and seasons… why are these important… because crops need to grow…

    Watch http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ it is enlightening.

  30. 32 linzeebinzee September 8, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    People of all religions, and people with no religion survive accidents every day. If you had gotten injured in that accident would it have made you question your belief in Anjaneya? Isn’t it possible that you just got really really lucky?

  31. 33 misunderstoodranter September 8, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Or unlucky, depending on how you look at it – his bike was wrecked and he had an accident, I am sure he would have preferred not to have an accident at all… so did god save him, or cause the accident..? I think neither, it was an accident, and accidents by their nature are random natural events.

    The fact that he cried out a gods name, while the accident was happening, is irrelevant, it is just circumstantial, because he is religious – and humans have a tendency to make connections to events that are not there. Also because he is religious, it is highly likely that he will cry our gods name during any accident or surprise, even people who are not religious do this, such is the sociological religious brainwashing (school, scouts, TV, weddings, funerals the list goes on and on – religion is everywhere, being forced down our throats from a very young age – even if your family are not religious, it is almost impossible to avoid).

    If you don’t believe in coincidence – then read on:

    I will give you an example, my best friend’s surname is called Turner, my wife’s maiden name is Turner, I met my wife and my best friend on the same day, they are not related at all, even more strangely, my wife’s brother had a child recently (surname Turner) on the exact same day as my friend’s wife (also surname Turner), and even more oddly (I promise I will finish soon), the day that my friend and my brother in law’s children were born was also my wife’s dead grandmother’s birthday!!!

    Now for the religious amongst us would allocate this to the divine intervention, possibly because of the spirit of the dead grandmother. Religious people do this because, they do not understand mathematics, so they think this circumstance is not possible and must have been planned.

    But what they forget is that we live in a universe, which is made up of trillions upon trillions of objects and events – so therefore literally anything is possible, there are trillions of outcomes from every single thing that happens – and when you consider that the name Turner in the English speaking world is not that rare, then it is even more likely that such a coincidence like this could occur. I doubt that my ‘Turner coincidence’ is that improbable, and I bet with a little research you can find similar stories.

  32. 34 Pyrrho September 10, 2009 at 2:10 am

    “People of all religions, and people with no religion survive accidents every day.”
    They also die every day. I wonder why this god decided to spare this person’s life and ignore the many prayers from others that no doubt didn’t live through that exact same 24 hour period.
    There are plenty of religionists killed while praying in foxholes. (I just like that…sorry)

  33. 35 Pyrrho September 10, 2009 at 2:12 am

    Oh, for a good laugh read Ray Comfort’s blog. You should get plenty of fodder from his total and utter logical and rational failures.

  34. 36 linzeebinzee September 12, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Ugh I’ve read his blog, it’s ridiculous…I also subscribe to his Way of the Master newsletter and it’s all kind of crazy

  35. 37 misunderstoodranter September 13, 2009 at 4:25 am

    and Christian’s are starting to wonder why Atheism is growing in popularity… people like Ray Comfort really let the side down – what a nut job.

  36. 38 Rayray January 8, 2010 at 8:45 am

    I also wanted to share my personal experiences with God…

    It was April first 2007 that I received a phone call that my 4 yr old son was on his way to the hospital in a helicopter. But this was no April fools joke. His name was Preston. He had blond hair, blue eyes and told everyone he loved them. His disposition afforded him a life of constant gifts, even from complete strangers. He was a perfectly healthy boy with a sudden 106 degree temp. My great uncle (who is steeped in the word of God) met me at the hospital to help pray for him. I rallied the whole family up and told them that God would help us, he would be a miracle baby. I knew God would help, I was teaching him how to be a good Christian already. He wouldn’t take him from me. We prayed for him and asked all of our loved ones who was not there to do the same. We all maintained faith that he would overcome whatever this unknown force was that was ailing him. We thanked God for allowing him to live and continue to be in a loving and Christian family. Two days later I looked into his eyes as he lay on the hospital bed, fully dilated, empty, lifeless. Soon after I burst into tears with realization that my son was gone forever the doctor pronounced him dead. Until this point I had trusted that God would fulfill his prophecy, “ask and you shall receive”, “…if your faith was no larger than a grain of mustard seed (or just a faint glow of light), you could level a mountain” -spoken by Jesus and such. I wasn’t asking to level a mountain just heal my beautiful baby boy. I had complete faith that he would heal just fine. The God I believed in would have never allowed that to happen. God simply does not exist I reasoned. Now atheism is what keeps me from being bitter at God for allowing Preston to pass away. Atheism was liberating to me, helping to finally make life’s questions make sense that was so confusing before. Becoming an atheist was like taking off a blindfold for the first time in my life. So liberating and useful to reason the things that happen to us. More comforting to me than any religion could ever give me.

    Now don’t get me wrong, if I could take it all back, I would. I would love to remain blissfully ignorant just to spend the rest of my life with my son. But it happened, and I learned. Once you learn something, you cannot unlearn it. And the swarm of thoughts and information I have received since has supported my beliefs.

    Life has been very kind to me since my son passed. Who gets credit for that? Is God rewarding me for turning my back on him, or is it so that there is no God or Gods at the helm controlling everything? Life is just a balance of good and bad. I am sure more bad things will happen to me, its just the natural order of life. Just as theists believe that God created everything that is beautiful, you would have to also realize that he created flesh eating bacteria, allows children to starve to death when all it needed was rain for crops, and allows thousands of innocent women to be terrorized or burned to death because of a sentence written within his infallible word, “thou shall not suffer a witch to live” -Exodus 22:18.

    I don’t want to get tangled up in an argument with anyone, I just know this world can be a good place without the need for any God. After all love, hope, compassion and empathy are all human emotions, not Christian emotions. The idea that an atheist cannot feel love and only has hate in their hearts is ridiculously untrue. The religious just need to stop pushing it down our throats. WE are not telling you something that we cannot prove exists and that you will burn for not believing. We are simply saying I don’t see proof, I cannot believe. The burden of PROOF is on you, so show proof or let us be. Most of us are happy to let you have your God if it makes you happy, but as for us, we are happy without a God. I am sure that all theists and atheists alike don’t agree with all I have said, but I hope you respect my passion. I will close with a quote that shines light on logic.

    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent (having very great or unlimited authority or power).
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent (Having or exhibiting ill will; malicious).
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

  37. 39 Rayray January 8, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Ps. Keep up the good work linzeebinzee.

  38. 40 EnlightningLinZ January 9, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Hi RayRay, wow thank you so much for sharing your story, and I’m so sorry to hear about your son. Your story brought tears to my eyes, both because it’s such a tragedy, and because I remember what it’s like to feel like you’re in control because of your prayers, and then to have those prayers fail. I’m also sorry that you had to go through that in order to realize that there couldn’t be a god good up there pulling the strings. I’m happy for you, though, that you’ve been able to get past that bitterness and have a meaningful life despite being an atheist. I think that when you hang on to the idea of an afterlife and that god had a plan for your loved one that died, it’s hard to grieve fully as you’re always holding onto the idea that they’re still there with you. In my opinion it makes it harder to appreciate the person’s life for what it was.

  39. 41 Steve O. March 30, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    The primary point I want to make is that New Testament prophecies are directly taken from the Old Testament to appear legitimate. This seems wildly obvious.
    What’s interesting is when you consider the Jews, who originally wrote the Old Testament prophecies (vague as they often are) do not, themselves, consider Jesus to be the one who fulfilled those prophecies.

  40. 42 SHOW May 20, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    I noticed that you added the flood to stories in the bible that can’t be proved. I have heard that the flood story has been told in many different societies (sorry I don’t remember the source). I look at the extinction of dinosaurs and that huge crater in mexico as possible evidence for a catastrophic event that may have created a massive shift in plates and possibly a flood event. Sorry I haven’t done all the research. But I try to piece evidence together that makes sense. I wonder if we stopped trying to prove or disprove a oral history and just looked at the evidence and see if it lines. Would it be that bad if there was a flood. It doesn’t prove the other stories in the bible are true just that some of it might be.

  41. 43 EnlightningLinZ May 21, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Hi SHOW, I wouldn’t object to it if there were a global flood, it doesn’t make a difference to me one way or another, but the fact is that there’s not enough water on our planet to create a global flood, simple as that. Flood stories happen in many different societies because floods happen practically everywhere.

  42. 44 Mark D. Griswold June 19, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Is there a GOD?
    My wife, when told after 3 months of testing, that her WOMB was DEAD, (she was almost 30) she was terribly discouraged, especially since we had NOT yet had any children! So when we got home from the Dr.s she went and lay down on our bed, SULKING!
    But as our car had pulled into the parking lot under our apt. I heard our pastor saying over and over again that “JESUS Healed them All” And “HE Never turned Anyone away.” And then I remembered someone saying, “IF you have a NEED – And you Don’t know what to Do, See what the BiBLE Says!”
    So as soon as I got in our apt. I headed for the Concordance to our BiBLE and looked up the word “BARREN”. I found 3 references. In Deuteronomy it said, “The Fruit of your WOMB shall be BLESSED.” (Sounded Nice, But her WOMB was DEAD! — so I kept on looking!)
    The next entry in the BiBLE is Psalm 113:9, which says, “…HE gives the BARREN woman a home, And makes her the JOYful MOTHER of CHiLDREN. PRAiSE the LORD!” And just as I read that, I sensed a “Still, Small Voice” say to me, “This is GOD, Speaking To you.” (To be Continued…)

  43. 45 Mark D. Griswold June 19, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    So I rushed into the bedroom where Clarice (my wife) was in tears on the bed, and I excitedly said, “Clarice!!, Look What I Found in the BiBLE!!!”
    She sadly looked up, read the WORDs, and she joined me in PRAiSiNG GOD, KNOWing that GOD has PROMiSED, “MY WORD Shall NOT Return To ME VOiD, But IT shall ACCOMPLiSH what I please, AND PROSPER In the thing for which I SENT IT.” AND “HE Sent HiS WORD And HEALED them.”
    Then about 10 weeks later our pastor stopped durig the announcements, and called out, “The LORD IS HEALiNG A WOMAN in Her FEMALE ORGANs. Then my wife told me that just prior to his saying that, she felt a GLOWing WARMth, like WARM HONEY COVERiNG HER WOMB!!!
    12 Days Later, she noticed the after-affects of her FiRST PERiOD IN 9 MONTHS!!!

    Our MiRACLE Daughter, FELiCiA ELiSE (meaning “Happy and Prosperous” “GiFT of the LORD!”) is now 24, and recently married a soldier she met online in IRAQ and got to know for 16 months — AND is now VERY HAPPiLY MARRiED!!!

    The LORD IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!


  44. 46 Mark D. Griswold June 19, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    After finding the PROMiSES in GOD’s WORD, we first PRAISED GOD for HIS WORD!!!

  45. 47 EnlightningLinZ June 24, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Hi Mark,

    Congratulations on the birth of your daughter, but your story doesn’t convince me of the existence of a god. The body’s a complicated thing and doctors are mistaken all the time. There are stories like yours from people in every religion, and there’s no evidence that the so-called “miracles” are due to any external force. People heal, with or without prayers.

    By the way…is your CAPSLOCK KEY BROKEN?

  46. 48 Andrés June 26, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Hey Mark, your story sucks.

    Hey girl, your blog rocks.

    Long live Epicurus!

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